Plekking

[3bolt79]

Musical instruments aren't merely scientific devices that make noise. They're devices that allow artists to make music. A computer might be able to guide a cutting surface with extreme precision, they just won't be able to interpret the results in human scale.

Hopefully competent luthiers and reasonably skilled techs assist in programming the plek device. But there isn't any guarantee of that.
And in 30 years in music both orchestral and ...not...I never met a luthier that relied on visuals to determine the quality of their work...

they rely on feel and sound.

My level and crown and polish jobs are better, if I may say so myself. For the same $200 or less most times, I will do everything by hand, spending multiple hours spending sometimes up to a week between that and the set up. I've never done it all in one day, that's for sure, and I usually wind up with a Popeye arm by the time I'm done.

This includes the nut and the saddles if there are any burrs. Pickup height adjustments, etc. I also polish out any high spots at the edges of the inlays. I go through the whole guitar, tightening every fastener, remove swirls in the paint, everything. My frets are smoother and better polished than any Plek job as I go up to 5000 gr Micromesh and then finish with mild paste polish by hand. And I usually just charge $150 plus any extra materials if needed.

This for me is a labor of love. It's not gainful for the hours I put in vs the pay I get. And my friends just get it for even less, because you know, beer.

 

[soulman]

The Plek service being based on CNC, which boils down to working within ranges down to thousands of millimetres, which may not meet the eye even of the most accomplished luthier, but if it doesn't meet the eye, you might feel it in your fingertips, I would always go with the more scientific approach, as in the CNC based method.

That's reasonable and for some greatly desired. For me it more than likely would not improve my playing and/or musical output and therefore not worth the cost especially if I had every guitar I own plekked. But if I were to once again buy a custom shop level instrument I might have it plekked just to have that one guitar that's been built to play as fine as it can possibly be.

 

[rolandson]

My level and crown and polish jobs are better, if I may say so myself. For the same $200 or less most times, I will do everything by hand, spending multiple hours spending sometimes up to a week between that and the set up. I've never done it all in one day, that's for sure, and I usually wind up with a Popeye arm by the time I'm done.

This includes the nut and the saddles if there are any burrs. Pickup height adjustments, etc. I also polish out any high spots at the edges of the inlays. I go through the whole guitar, tightening every fastener, remove swirls in the paint, everything. My frets are smoother and better polished than any Plek job as I go up to 5000 gr Micromesh and then finish with mild paste polish by hand. And I usually just charge $150 plus any extra materials if needed.

This for me is a labor of love. It's not gainful for the hours I put in vs the pay I get. And my friends just get it for even less, because you know, beer.

I am of the school that rulers and micrometers and ... hell, electron microscopes have no business anywhere near a guitar being setup. Put the stuff back in the drawer (except the scope, it needs something bigger) and use your fingers and ears...

you will get it right ...

every. damn. time.

 

[TheVillageGrouch]

I just looked it up... both of my new Martin 28s were Pleked. Seems they started in 2007 - had no idea they were using it that far back.

The six string needed saddle attention from the start, action too high which seems to be how they ship them. The setup made sense for a Bluegrass rhythm player who hammers hard on the strings.

The twelve string was nearly perfect from day one. A minor rod tweak got the relief where I thought it should be. Did not mess with the saddle.

From a Martin factory tour:

 

[TheVillageGrouch]

It just occurred to me. Is the top light equivalent to DEFCON 1?

 

[3bolt79]

I just finished setting up a forum members Squier telecaster today. He has one fret, the 19th that had just a very slight wobble, and I mean barely imperceptible.

If would have wanted to fix that, I would have had to charge him because it would have been been a lot of extra time, and I know that it would have been overkill that he didn’t want to pay for.

I did a little sanding when I polished the frets, then ran a grit felt on my dremel, and then polishing by hand with micro mesh and a fine paste on a paper towel. Afterward in wasn’t noticeable and after setup it plays really slick. Otherwise it was perfectly level throughout to begin with.

This is a Squier CV Tele that he bought brand new from Sam Ash for $330 out the door. The quality on this guitar was so good out of the box. The fit and finish was better than the 50 something reissue Tele that was $2200 and change that I just looked at at guitar center last week.

On a guitar like that, it would make no sense to spend the money on a Plek. He’s in and out for $30.00 strings included.

I plan to play it for a couple of days before he comes to get it just to make sure the relief doesn’t change.

 

[RWilke]

I just looked it up... both of my new Martin 28s were Pleked. Seems they started in 2007 - had no idea they were using it that far back.

It seems like it has been around since early 2000. As far as I can tell, it has become pretty much standard in guitar industry, but certainly not applied on $300 guitars for obvious reasons. For what it's worth, anyone who is really interested and has about 10 minutes to spare, do have a look at this video:

Rick Beato Invited Me To Berlin and we visited the Inventor of the Plek Machine​

You will get to see a really nice gal, a very cool and open-minded guy and then some technical German guys having a bit of a hard time speaking English, so please excuse that particular bit. Other than that, you get a load of information as for the underlying technology and the overall process, and in a very condensed form.

 

[RustyChops]

I’m OK with plekking if a company wants to do that. My 2022 SG was done at the factory.
One online store offers to do it on orders, for $200. Didn’t think it needed that, additionally.
I’ve always learned to do most things myself, on most things, guitars included, so I guess I’m just “iffy” about plekking.
If it’s free: knock yourself out corporate America (or elsewhere).

 

[Wound_Up]

Fortunately it (plek) was not a thing when it might have crossed my radar...so I did things in what we old farts think of as "the old fashioned way"...which required acquiring some skill or relying on someone who had.

My opinion about it isn't particularly favorable ... I've come to think of it as a means to eliminate the skilled craft/trade-person and rely on those who are not.

One of the truly beneficial things about the skilled human approach ...
language. Talking with the luthier/tech about how I liked - disliked or wanted something.

There is something to be said for sitting with a skilled human and getting the results right one step at a time...instead of a machine and computer telling me what perfection is.

You have to be skilled to use one. Just like any CNC machine. Any old fool can't just walk up, put their guitar in, and get a great fret job. In reality, 99% of people wouldn't get a functional fret job from one without training and acquiring the proper skills to operate one.

A Plek tech can f-k up your guitar as easily as they can make it great. Just like ANY fret job. You don't just hit a button and it does everything perfect. Not. Even. Close.

You really should watch this. You seem to have the wrong idea about what a plek does and what it takes to get a great fret job from one. It take as much skill as ANY fret job.

You aren't going to walk up to a Plek and get the same fret job this guy gets without the proper training and acquired skills.

Just like ANY fret job. Anything you like, dislike, want, or don't want can be done with pleking, also. You just talk to the skilled tradesman operating the machine. Just like ANY fret job.

You REALLY need to watch this so you understand at least the basics of how they work and what it takes to get a good fret job from one. It takes a SKILLED CRAFTSMAN. They don't just program something in and it does the same exact thing to every guitar. Not by a long shot.

 

[rolandson]

You have to be skilled to use one. Just like any CNC machine. Any old fool can't just walk up, put their guitar in, and get a great fret job. In reality, 99% of people wouldn't get a functional fret job from one without training and acquiring the proper skills to operate one.

A Plek tech can f-k up your guitar as easily as they can make it great. Just like ANY fret job. You don't just hit a button and it does everything perfect. Not. Even. Close.

You really should watch this. You seem to have the wrong idea about what a plek does and what it takes to get a great fret job from one. It take as much skill as ANY fret job.

You aren't going to walk up to a Plek and get the same fret job this guy gets without the proper training and acquired skills.

Just like ANY fret job. Anything you like, dislike, want, or don't want can be done with pleking, also. You just talk to the skilled tradesman operating the machine. Just like ANY fret job.

You REALLY need to watch this so you understand at least the basics of how they work and what it takes to get a good fret job from one. It takes a SKILLED CRAFTSMAN. They don't just program something in and it does the same exact thing to every guitar. Not by a long shot.

No thanks, I really don't...need to gather a greater understanding of how a plek device works. I am really quite satisfied with the results that the skilled human beings who've cared for me and my cellos and guitars have been able to deliver over these many years .

What I'm seeing is a device that sets about the task differently, though not necessarily better. I prefer interacting with humans... particularly humans who enjoy an existential comprehension for those elements that defy language and for which no equation has been written...that are experienced rather than described.

Don't forget, underneath it all, I'm both an artist and a scientist; before exploiting the musical education my parents insisted I acquire, starting at a very early age, I acquired an advanced degree in one discipline after several undergraduate degrees in related fields. I not only trust science, I embrace it.

And...
I'd rather talk to a skilled luthier. Better still I prefer to observe and guide the skilled luthier as they experience what my limited mastery of language might fail to convey. The human element is, as my sixty years of stringed instrument experience has taught, several orders of magnitude superior than an algorithm.

Which is to say...
it's human.

 

[3bolt79]

I’ve noticed that every now and then, the Plek’d Givsons have had too much metal removed, making the fret heights shorter than they should be.

One SG that I got a few months ago had frets that were like vintage Fenders. I sent it back. The replacement was better, but the fret heights were still a little low.

If a guitar comes from the factory Plek’d, and the fret heights are suitably tall, then great. However, I wouldn’t waste my money on that service out of pocket. I can do better by hand, and the Plek jobs aren’t as highly polished as I can get by hand.

I can level the frets without having to remove as much metal as the machines do.

 

[TheVillageGrouch]

You have to be skilled to use one. Just like any CNC machine. Any old fool can't just walk up, put their guitar in, and get a great fret job. In reality, 99% of people wouldn't get a functional fret job from one without training and acquiring the proper skills to operate one.

A Plek tech can f-k up your guitar as easily as they can make it great. Just like ANY fret job. You don't just hit a button and it does everything perfect. Not. Even. Close.

You really should watch this. You seem to have the wrong idea about what a plek does and what it takes to get a great fret job from one. It take as much skill as ANY fret job.

You aren't going to walk up to a Plek and get the same fret job this guy gets without the proper training and acquired skills.

Just like ANY fret job. Anything you like, dislike, want, or don't want can be done with pleking, also. You just talk to the skilled tradesman operating the machine. Just like ANY fret job.

You REALLY need to watch this so you understand at least the basics of how they work and what it takes to get a good fret job from one. It takes a SKILLED CRAFTSMAN. They don't just program something in and it does the same exact thing to every guitar. Not by a long shot.

What I have read in a couple of places as well.

 

[RWilke]

I can level the frets without having to remove as much metal as the machines do.

I hate to rain on your parade, and you probably won't like hearing this, but you pretty much have it backwards. The whole idea of the Plek service, being CNC based, being that it will only take as much metal off the frets as is actually needed, in terms of treating each individual fret along with each individual string at any position, going by the previous scan, and doing this under neck tension replicating the tension imposed by the strings.

It is also designed to work within ranges that you could never ever be able to see or even feel.

But just go on ignoring all the information you have been given above, particularly along with the videos provided already. It would only just take 10 minutes of your time to be done with your misinformation.

 

[rolandson]

It is also designed to work within ranges that you could never ever be able to see or even feel.

Well, not to rain on your parade or anything...
Insofar as the whole idea is about things like sonics and touch, that is "feel"...
if ya can't feel it, what's the point?

 

[RWilke]

Well, not to rain on your parade or anything...
Insofar as the whole idea is about things like sonics and touch, that is "feel"...
if ya can't feel it, what's the point?

No offence intended, but it's all about the overall process and the overall approach to it. World of a difference. Your mileage may vary.

 

[3bolt79]

I hate to rain on your parade, and you probably won't like hearing this, but you pretty much have it backwards. The whole idea of the Plek service, being CNC based, being that it will only take as much metal off the frets as is actually needed, in terms of treating each individual fret along with each individual string at any position, going by the previous scan, and doing this under neck tension replicating the tension imposed by the strings.

It is also designed to work within ranges that you could never ever be able to see or even feel.

But just go on ignoring all the information you have been given above, particularly along with the videos provided already. It would only just take 10 minutes of your time to be done with your misinformation.

Yeah, it’s so great…that’s why my Gibson has a high fret at the end of the board. And the one I got before it had frets as short, height wise, as a vintage Fender.

But, it’s your money, do with it as you see fit. I’m not gonna be suckered into doing it. I’ve seen too many marginal to outright bad Plek jobs. A Plek job is only going to be as good as it’s operator, and from what I’ve seen, there are plenty that are not.

 

[RWilke]

Yeah, it’s so great…that’s why my Gibson has a high fret at the end of the board. And the one I got before it had frets as short, height wise, as a vintage Fender.

But, it’s your money, do with it as you see fit. I’m not gonna be suckered into doing it. I’ve seen too many marginal to outright bad Plek jobs. A Plek job is only going to be as good as it’s operator, and from what I’ve seen, there are plenty that are not.

Start by watching the documentation, which would only include watching a 10 minute video to begin with, linked to up above, before making any uninformed opinion about it. If the guitars which you received as allegedly gone through Plek service didn't cut the mustard, you have probably been taken for a ride.

 

[3bolt79]

Start by watching the documentation, which would only include watching a 10 minute video to begin with, linked to up above, before making any uninformed opinion about it. If the guitars which you received as allegedly gone through Plek service didn't cut the mustard, you have probably been taken for a ride.

Which I guess can be typical for Gibson, the “Ride” part.