Advice buying a vintage fender (Amp reverb or pedal reverb?)

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Matthew_McComis

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I started playing guitar 2 years ago and saved up about 1000 dollars to spend on a vintage fender amp. Some of my favorite guitar tones are those on Axis: Bold As Love, SRV, and Highway 61 revisited, and I really want to have that fender spring reverb. My current amp is a Marshall 100dfx that I can use as a cab if I get a head. My main question is whether you people think it is smarter for me to get a late 60s early 70s twin reverb or Bandmaster reverb head or use the money for an earlier 60s blackface bandmaster or dual showman head and just get a reverb pedal. Any advice would be heavily appreciated! Thanks
 
I’ve found that there is no reverb pedal that accurately simulates the real thing… even ones that sound great, well, I put them last in the chain like you’re supposed to, and when I hit a boost pedal (clean boost or otherwise) it makes the reverb so much extra… I hate it, lol.

So, I found this:

1721500988973.jpeg

Which is an actual spring reverb unit. The company went out of business unfortunately…

So they’re pricey.


 
Matthew_McComis said:
I started playing guitar 2 years ago and saved up about 1000 dollars to spend on a vintage fender amp. Some of my favorite guitar tones are those on Axis: Bold As Love, SRV, and Highway 61 revisited, and I really want to have that fender spring reverb. My current amp is a Marshall 100dfx that I can use as a cab if I get a head. My main question is whether you people think it is smarter for me to get a late 60s early 70s twin reverb or Bandmaster reverb head or use the money for an earlier 60s blackface bandmaster or dual showman head and just get a reverb pedal. Any advice would be heavily appreciated! Thanks
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You are aware that you'll have to crank those amps to get the tubes saturating ? If you have the chance to try a Pro Junior with an external cab with 2X10" or a 1X12" (to kill its combo boxy tone), you might find what you're looking for.
VictorB said:
... when I hit a boost pedal (clean boost or otherwise) it makes the reverb so much extra… I hate it, lol.
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Modulations like reverb should ideally be used in the effect loop. Thus, an amp without an effect loop is better with onboard reverb.
 
I'm in lock step with the rest. No reverb pedal can produce as accurately when a tank spring reverb can. But my other question is has you considered the potential costs of owning a high powered tube amp in addition to just the cost of buying one? If the amp requires updating and possibly new tubes as well you could be talking several hundred dollars more for that. Do you really need that much power?
 
I use one of three amps to gig with on a regular basis. My 2 Homestead amps have onboard reverb, my Satellite Cuda does not. It’s a super bare bones amp, no effects loop. So the Sole Mate works way better than a pedal.
 
You're probably not going to get a vintage, safe to use amplifier for 1K. You might look at a new, used reissue of a favorite Fender amp instead.

My friend just got a really new, mint 65 Deluxe Reverb reissue for $700.00. It's only a couple of years old. They go for $1700 new these days.

Seriously, a vintage black face in excellent condition is going to be out of your budget.
 
Oh, I forgot to say "Welcome". And, you might want to scout Reverb for an amp with a spring tank. Just about every classic Fender amp has been reissued. You might also want to check out Mesa/Boogies offerings, many used ones may be within your budget.
 
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Matthew_McComis said:
I started playing guitar 2 years ago and saved up about 1000 dollars to spend on a vintage fender amp. Some of my favorite guitar tones are those on Axis: Bold As Love, SRV, and Highway 61 revisited, and I really want to have that fender spring reverb. My current amp is a Marshall 100dfx that I can use as a cab if I get a head. My main question is whether you people think it is smarter for me to get a late 60s early 70s twin reverb or Bandmaster reverb head or use the money for an earlier 60s blackface bandmaster or dual showman head and just get a reverb pedal. Any advice would be heavily appreciated! Thanks
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That's a tough one. I'm not a big reverb user and have pared my Vintage Fenders back to a BF Deluxe and BF Pro (non reverb) and a Princeton Reverb. I find playing in a band mix live that Reverb tends to muddy things up. But I DO like it on some things. I'm more of a Delay/Echo user now. The non reverb amps sound a little "thicker" also which I like. You can get that sound in the Normal channel of a reverb amp though also.
It's hard to beat vintage Fender Reverb though.
Showman Reverb, Bandmaster Reverb heads are not too expensive. There's a Showman Reverb head on Reverb now for $690. But it's been modded a bit and the Reverb removed. Probably not huge to restore it.
In some ways I like some Reverb and Tremelo pedals, they seem to stay cleaner in a band mix.

Beware that vintage amps can take constant work to keep using them. It seems of my 3 I currently have I'm always sorting out one or the other. Often it's noise; hissing, popping crackling etc. Not always a tube either. SO when you buy one, I would pass if it has any of those noises.... it can take a ton of time to sort out or be expensive if you dont do amp work yourself.
 
Nobody seems to have asked this- what are your plans with the amp? Are you going to gig with it? Record? just a home amp? If gigging, will you run it through the PA, or go old school, stand alone stage volume? either of the Fenders you listed are going to be hella loud before you reach SRV or JW territory.

Both Johnny and SRV ran through 15" speakers as well, so that's another consideration added to your list.

Hendrix used a Princeton Reverb on Axis, 12 watts and a 10" speaker. The new "tone master" princetons are around a grand, so that may be worth a look for you, and much easier to maintain than a vintage tube amp.

I had a 1964 tuxedo princeton, and I was scared to take it out of the house, it was very fragile, or so it seemed. It sounded good, but really not any better than my little vox cambridge or my peavy bandit. Certainly not enough better to justify the potential expense of repairs should something happen to it.

Lastly, for what it's worth, the reverb on my Peavey Red Stripe Bandit is deeper and drippy-er than any of the many fender's I've owned.
 
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Advice?
Sure. Do your homework and develop sufficient expertise to know what you are getting into. You've mentioned Bandmaster and Twin in the same sentence and, the only similarity between them is the manufacturer's name. And, I am afraid that @3bolt79 is spot on, $1k will be a reasonable down payment on a 60s fender amp, but, it will only get you close to a few. The Champ and Princeton I think. The rest? No.

If your interest is the sound these things make, you will get the most bang for your buck by learning what it is that makes them sound the way they do. A Twin sounds nothing like a Bandmaster, which sounds nothing like a Deluxe Reverb, which sounds nothing like a Super Reverb.

Once you have a handle on what makes them special you will know what it is that you want, and what you don't. For my money, the Twin Reverb is the worst sounding amplifier from the 60s & 70s that fender made (and the Super Reverb the best). But that's me.

A really good place to start to grasp this stuff is
www.fenderguru.com

These people break down the components of the BF circuits in a way the none technician can easily comprehend.

So after a stretch of bookwork and a thorough understanding of these amps, you will, I'm pretty sure, realize that you can build your own. And $1k will put you into a quality kit.
 
rolandson said:
Advice?
Sure. Do your homework and develop sufficient expertise to know what you are getting into. You've mentioned Bandmaster and Twin in the same sentence and, the only similarity between them is the manufacturer's name. And, I am afraid that @3bolt79 is spot on, $1k will be a reasonable down payment on a 60s fender amp, but, it will only get you close to a few. The Champ and Princeton I think. The rest? No.

If your interest is the sound these things make, you will get the most bang for your buck by learning what it is that makes them sound the way they do. A Twin sounds nothing like a Bandmaster, which sounds nothing like a Deluxe Reverb, which sounds nothing like a Super Reverb.

Once you have a handle on what makes them special you will know what it is that you want, and what you don't. For my money, the Twin Reverb is the worst sounding amplifier from the 60s & 70s that fender made (and the Super Reverb the best). But that's me.

A really good place to start to grasp this stuff is
www.fenderguru.com

These people break down the components of the BF circuits in a way the none technician can easily comprehend.

So after a stretch of bookwork and a thorough understanding of these amps, you will, I'm pretty sure, realize that you can build your own. And $1k will put you into a quality kit.
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That’s good advice. I wasn’t even thinking of the possibility of a kit, but it makes sense if it’s the sound that you are after and not the collectibility.

I don’t put much stock in vintage amplifiers. To me it’s kind of like appliances. There are a few iconic vintage amps that I would consider, but for the most part, why would you want such an old electric device that you are just going to have to replace electrolytics on, and other components just to be able to use it safely?

I just thought about it a little more and OP might be able to get a used Swart Space Tone that has a killer reverb, Class A Combo that can get really loud if he needs it for around his budget, or a little more.
 
From what you've said in your original post it's the tonality of those vintage Fender amps you're after. If that's the case I would suggest spending your $1000 on getting one of the Tonemaster versions of those amps and there are several to choose from all the way from the Twin Reverb on down to a Princeton Reverb. These are the core blackface amps from the 60s and Fender has done an amazing job of capturing each of them accurately in a SS format. Even the Reverb sounds amazingly accurate.

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Welcome Aboard! I’m a Fender Pawn Shop series fan. The Vaporizer has a surprisingly good/lush spring reverb in a simple 2x10 amp. (I also have an Excelsior with no onboard reverb). Every other time I’ve gone in with cash in hand for a Fender amp, I’ve come away with another brand…happily, but an affliction.

Wrt using a reverb pedal. There are probably hundreds out there…a half dozen of them might do the sound in your head. Note it is easier to change the sound of a pedal or replace it with another if it isn’t the sound one wants…I probably have eight or ten at this point. Personally, I tend towards those that can do a hall or room reverb of some sort. Even on my amps that have a good to great spring reverb, I may add a reverb pedal to get a little something extra. YMMV.

Happy Hunting!
 
IMO half the point of getting a vintage Fender tube amp is for the godlike spring reverb. Buying a Fender without reverb is like buying a Mesa without distortion.
 
VictorB said:
I’ve found that there is no reverb pedal that accurately simulates the real thing… even ones that sound great, well, I put them last in the chain like you’re supposed to, and when I hit a boost pedal (clean boost or otherwise) it makes the reverb so much extra… I hate it, lol.

So, I found this:

View attachment 197

Which is an actual spring reverb unit. The company went out of business unfortunately…

So they’re pricey.


Click to expand...

There are other companies making stuff like this.

Anasounds makes a real spring reverb pedal.

Anasounds Element Spring Reverb 2019 - Natural Wood https://reverb.com/item/83104964?ut...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=83104964
 
3bolt79 said:
You're probably not going to get a vintage, safe to use amplifier for 1K. You might look at a new, used reissue of a favorite Fender amp instead.

My friend just got a really new, mint 65 Deluxe Reverb reissue for $700.00. It's only a couple of years old. They go for $1700 new these days.

Seriously, a vintage black face in excellent condition is going to be out of your budget.
Click to expand...

Boy that would've been swell. I'd have loved a Deluxe Reverb. I ended up getting the Hot Rod Deluxe, though.

The reverb on it drips. It's not as lush as the old vintage amps but it at least sounds better than the reverb on my Monoprice amp.
 
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