“The country a guitar is made in does not matter much”

[PeteR]

The funny thing is that what Made in the USA guarantees lately is it will be made with quality parts made to last that don't need to be upgraded. I've got guitars from Korea, China, Indonesia, and Mexico that have construction quality equal to what you'd expect from the US, but they cut corners on hardware, pickups, and electronics.

You need to try 'Made in Japan' guitars.....

 

[Stu78]

The greatest benefit to the imports when it comes to stuff like that is virtually all of the hardware can be replaced with something better and you're still far under the cost of a Gibson or a Fender branded model. I've only found one Squier I bought that needed more significant fret work done than a simple polish or maybe the need to tap a high fret down or knock off a high spot. However I have found some nuts that were not correctly cut.

If someone is good at fixing that stuff like you are it's a quick fix. Otherwise you spend another $100 or so and have a tech or luthier do it. Anyway you look at it even if they need an upgrade or two or some fretwork or a new nut you're still out of pocket hundreds or even thousands less. The biggest caution to me is the neck especially on set neck models. Those should be rejected or bought only at a very steep discount. But with a bolt on you can just replace the neck.

My point though was that even if I choose to upgrade most of what can be I'd still have hundreds of dollars less into that import than I would it's US equivalent. For instance; An American Pro II Tele sells for $1700 whereas a Squier CV 50s Tele sells for $430. With the $1270 saved I can buy what I need to bring that Squier pretty damn close to the equivalent of the American Pro II and still have saved hundreds.

Or, I can choose to do nothing at all and the CV will still be a very good sounding and playing Tele. I'm not implying there are no differences. We all know there are. The question is do they justify the $1270 difference in cost? For some buyers it will but for many who are able to do their own upgrades and mods it may not be. I'm one of the latter whose modified a half dozen CV guitars and basses.

I've spent as much as $200-$250 to upgrade one but also got back $100 or more selling the stock parts I no longer cared to keep around. I also bought the CVs for far less than their current prices. So I may have as little as $500 into a guitar or bass that's comparable to a Fender that sells for $1500-$1700. But none of those CVs actually needed to be upgraded. I did because I wanted to and because I could.

I get your point man. I own a Squier VM Jaguar. Paid £230 for it and spent probably another £200 on a Staytrem Arm and Bridge and little bits n' bobs. I love the Jag but would I pay mega bucks for the equivilent Fender model. Hell no, i'd still be having to fix the arm, bridge and neck angle anyway. I get the feel of a great Jag and the looks of a great jag without the pricetag. Moreover the quality of the VM Series models were really good.

 

[Stu78]

You need to try 'Made in Japan' guitars.....
View attachment 1776

Agreed, here's my main plonker.

 

[soulman]

I get your point man. I own a Squier VM Jaguar. Paid £230 for it and spent probably another £200 on a Staytrem Arm and Bridge and little bits n' bobs. I love the Jag but would I pay mega bucks for the equivilent Fender model. Hell no, i'd still be having to fix the arm, bridge and neck angle anyway. I get the feel of a great Jag and the looks of a great jag without the pricetag. Moreover the quality of the VM Series models were really good.
View attachment 1777

The way I see it is wood is wood. Yeah, there may be different grades of Alder, Ash, Poplar, Maple, etc but only the top grades are suitable for instrument production. CNC machines have replaced a lot of the labor involved with cutting body and neck blanks to size. Are we to believe those who do the final sanding and shaping in Asia are any less experienced than those in Ensenada or Corona?

Other than weight I've never found much difference in the bodies and neck between an MIM import and an Asian import. There may be with the US bodies and necks but then it's been a very long time since I've owned an MIA Fender. Final finishing and the applications of paint or stain may be a bit better on US builds but from my experience it's marginal at best. Not worth hundreds of dollars more.

So what's left is the pickups, electronics, tuners, and hardware all of which can be upgraded with after market parts, some much better than stock parts, if a person chooses to do so. We can spend a little doing it or we can spend a lot. But in the end it's still far less than we'd pay for it's US built equivalent and in many cases even less than it's Mexican built equivalent. For the most part Squiers have "good bones".

 

[3bolt79]

I’m waiting for some bills to be paid off before I buy my 2 Gibson’s. But I may get that CV 50’s Telemsooner rather than later. Otherwise, I’ll be waiting until April.

 

[Wound_Up]

“The country a guitar is made in does not matter much”: Paul Reed Smith thinks people should stop obsessing about guitars being made in America​

“It’s always been about the skill level of the guitar makers.”

“The country a guitar is made in does not matter much”: Paul Reed Smith thinks people should stop obsessing about guitars being made in America

Paul Reed Smith – head honcho at PRS – has given fuel to the side of the debate that believes no, it doesn’t matter where a guitar is made.

guitar.com

I agree. My guitars are phenomenal. I didn't pay more than $300 for any of them. I guarantee if they were built to this level of quality in the US, they'd be $1200-$1500 easily. Probably even more than that. Every Indio guitar I've ever ordered from Monoprice came to me almost perfect out of the box. No exaggerating whatsoever.

While Firefly owners get guitars in this price range with multiple defects, mine had none pretty much.

No finish issues. No fitment issues. No binding issues. No paint issues. Bone nut had the slots cut to depth and not left high. Action set low. Relief always set at zero relief with no buzzing. Frets were finished amazingly well. All level. Fret ends rounded and polished. Zero sharp fret ends. And they all come with D'addario strings. The last one coming with coated D'addarios.

Even after getting the absolutely incredible 2023 Epiphone '1959 Les Paul Standard', I still say these guitars are a steal. They're easily built as well as the Epiphone. Most have thicker maple tops than the Epi, surprisingly. They're easily between 1/2" and 3/4" thick after contouring the top.

Absolutely terrific instruments. Especially for the $279 they cost. I was shocked by how great that first guitar was. So much that I bought 4 more guitars from them after the first one. With 2 of those being LP-style, called the '66 DLX Plus'. One T-style, called an 'Retro DLX Plus'. And one 335-style, called a Boardwalk. The "DLX Plus" is their top model. They also have a 66 Classic and a Retro Classic that come in around $129 instead of $249 or $279.

One thing I noticed is the goldtop with humbuckers has a different top carve than the others. I actually prefer it, tbh. It has contours and stuff. The other ones just seem generically round, without those contours.

They stopped selling that guitar in 2022 or 2023 and it's their best guitar. Even better than what they currently sell, IMHO.(They have a P90 Goldtop and the sunburst, both seen below, now.) So much that I've been considering picking up a used one in black. They were offered in gold or black only. I originally bought gold because of Duane Allman and his Goldtop.

Don't mind the Epiphone lol

 

[Wound_Up]

The way I see it is wood is wood. Yeah, there may be different grades of Alder, Ash, Poplar, Maple, etc but only the top grades are suitable for instrument production. CNC machines have replaced a lot of the labor involved with cutting body and neck blanks to size. Are we to believe those who do the final sanding and shaping in Asia are any less experienced than those in Ensenada or Corona?

Other than weight I've never found much difference in the bodies and neck between an MIM import and an Asian import. There may be with the US bodies and necks but then it's been a very long time since I've owned an MIA Fender. Final finishing and the applications of paint or stain may be a bit better on US builds but from my experience it's marginal at best. Not worth hundreds of dollars more.

So what's left is the pickups, electronics, tuners, and hardware all of which can be upgraded with after market parts, some much better than stock parts, if a person chooses to do so. We can spend a little doing it or we can spend a lot. But in the end it's still far less than we'd pay for it's US built equivalent and in many cases even less than it's Mexican built equivalent. For the most part Squiers have "good bones".

I agree. Part of what keeps those guitars inexpensive IS the lower quality electronics and hardware. Personally, I have no problem installing $600+ worth of parts on my $250 guitar. Had they been installed at the factory, it definitely wouldn't have been a $250 guitar, still. That's part of what makes higher quality guitars higher quality. So I have no qualms with replacing inferior parts.

I do find it hilarious when other people decide they have problems with owners that do this with their guitars; install parts that are worth 3x the cost of the guitar. In fact, I find those kind of people interesting to begin with. Why are they so worried about what other people do with their stuff? What's their interest with what other people do with their money and their belongings?

 

[soulman]

I agree. Part of what keeps those guitars inexpensive IS the lower quality electronics and hardware. Personally, I have no problem installing $600+ worth of parts on my $250 guitar. Had they been installed at the factory, it definitely wouldn't have been a $250 guitar, still. That's part of what makes higher quality guitars higher quality. So I have no qualms with replacing inferior parts.

I do find it hilarious when other people decide they have problems with owners that do this with their guitars; install parts that are worth 3x the cost of the guitar. In fact, I find those kind of people interesting to begin with. Why are they so worried about what other people do with their stuff? What's their interest with what other people do with their money and their belongings?

The CEO of Fender had some interesting things to say during an interviews as it relates to why OEM parts costs are such a big deal and once he explained it I got it. He claimed that a $5 increase in parts cost ends up adding $50 to the retail MSRP. It sounds a little off when you first read it but not when it's fully explained.

To that $5 like every other part and labor cost Fender adds it's admin costs as a percentage of it's total manufactured cost. That's the cost of it payroll and facilities cost for FMIC. Let's say that $5. Then Fender adds it's desired profit margin. Let's say that $10. Now we're at $20 for Fender. The distributor get another $10 making the wholesale cost to the dealer $30. He has his $20 of profit to work from so it all adds up to $50.

If the certain guitar has to be sold at or below a certain price point if they spend even $5 more on parts cost it adds up to $100 at the retail level and that guitar now has to priced higher than the price point they went to stay at or under. Kinda explains why simple guitars like Teles for an example can be built so inexpensively and sold for far less by importers without all of that overhead or a distribution network who sell direct.